Guest Post: What happens when Christians don't spank?

Ok so this is the deal. We receive compliments ALL.THE.TIME about how well behaved T is. We do not spank him. We do not punish him. We follow some really simple guidelines that help us know how to help him when he's struggling with behavior.

That's it. It's available for everyone. There is tons of support and help for parents who get frustrated. It's really not rocket science.

I get it! I totally get the frustration kids can cause us to have....but it's not their problem, it's our problem. I am in control of me and my reaction to my kiddo. When I'm in control, I notice it's so much easier for him to be in control. When I become impatient and lose control and yell, my child reacts to that with more bad behavior and it takes him longer to get in control.

If I want respect from my child, I have to model respect every time I interact with my child. That's just how it works. So when I hear parents say my child is disrespectful and won't listen, I am left wondering how much respect and listening the parent gives the child.

How you treat your child, your child will treat you. It's called reaping what you sow.

~ Christina Driggers, mother of 4

Fruit of not spanking: "I'm sorry I was being mean."

Obedience seems to be a big deal to parents and stands out in an unrivaled manner to determine our "goodness" or "badness" as a parent. It doesn't seem to matter what other qualities our child has just so long as a child is obedient parents will get the "good job" label.

But, I don't think so.

One Saturday night my 4 year old came running out of the bedroom holding the puppy. My husband was tailing her and saying things like, "You never listen to me!" He was quite frustrated with her and she was doing her best to not listen to him, it was obvious.

I caught it that she'd been manhandling the dog in a way he felt was too rough and had commanded her to put him down which is when her arms held the puppy even more tightly and she took off with him. My husband was talking at her in his frustrated voice and just kept telling her, "You don't LISTEN to me!"

I was watching her and it wasn't just her words but all of her communication was telling him to go away. Her body was turned from him, her head was turned and her eyes were looking away from him. 

Finally, she was turned the whole way away from him and she was kicking against his legs and saying, "Shut uuuuuup!" and "Go awaaaaaay!"

Dejected and feeling like a complete loser of a dad because he couldn't make his child obey, my husband sorta' just hung his head and walked away.

I was actually preoccupied with something else and just not feeling like bothering getting involved (loser me!) So, I was just mopping the floor thinking about how strong the Pinesol smelled...and in a few minutes my little girl who has never been spanked or punished...pushes past me and says she "needs to go tell Dad something."

I hadn't talked to her or anything, right? I'd not sat her down and reminded her who was boss, not scolded her, not lectured her, or prompted her to do anything! What was she off to?

Now, I was interested!! :) 

I put the mop down and had to follow and see what she was gonna do!

So, she went and found my husband and walked right up to him and said, "I'm sorry I was being mean to you." 

She then asked forgiveness and then told him why she wasn't listening to him. She was like, "I wanted to do this..." Explaining her case.

(I think it's also noteworthy that she saw what a lot of parents see as "disobedience" as "herself being mean.")

This is what spontaneously came out of my 4 year old who has never been spanked, punished, OR even told, "Go tell so-n-so you're sorry!!!!" Never done that kinda' stuff with her. 

(So, just where in the world did she learn to do this? She would have had to have seen this modeled by someone, I imagine. Maybe it's because we model it for her?) (note slight sarcastic edge there.) :)

We parents make mistakes. And, I feel from what I'd observed that in my husband's effort to do what he thought he needed to it wasn't so much that she "wasn't listening" it was that he was failing to make himself heard by his "telling her what to do" approach. This would be why she was rejecting him.

No one likes to be "talked at" do they? Not even when they're four...

He said afterwards that he felt like a failure and always does because the kids "don't listen to him." But...I asked...what do we want? Do we want kids who grow up to be "obedient" adults? 

(The Nazis were obedient adults) 

Or, do we want kids who will become grown-ups who will stand up for what they want, stand up for what's right, reject temptations and even commands to do wrong, and when they feel someone has been offended by them to immediately go and make peace with that person?

You can beat obedience into a kid. You can make a kid grow up to be an obedient adult. But, the 2nd type? You can't force that. In fact, "punishing" and "spanking" kids really makes the second scenario impossible. 

My daughter did this out of her own heart's desire to fix what she felt was wrong and she clearly FELT bad for how she'd treated her dad. Her focus was on the failings of her own behavior that she all on her own identified as her "being mean."

You can train a kid to go apologize...out of compulsion and perhaps after years of it can make them form a habit. But, the sincere desire that my 4 y/o had in her heart that compelled her from the inside to go fix what she'd done wrong can only come from love...never fear.

So, why does a little girl that has so much love for her mom n' dad...who feels so safe in her relationship with them..."disobey?" 

A dear friend of mine in Canada reminded me of Jesus' words that, "If you love Me you will obey my commands" so maybe it all comes down to the relationship at the moment? And, maybe if our children "disobey" maybe we need to focus on encouraging their love...not obedience? If Jesus says that we will obey if we love Him? What comes first is the love and the obedience follows? Not, that our children must prove they love us by obeying? 

So many people think that spanking/hitting is God's way and that God's ultimate goal is obedience. But, clearly...the only way to inspire true obedience that springs from a heart is love. 

God has never said He wants complaint people. Obedient. Compliance comes from fear, training, force, and knowing who's boss.

Obedience comes from love.

I see it time and time again that the whole thing with not spanking/hitting them...pays off for us in the end. I have had kids who I did spank/hit for disobedience, and, they never did stuff like this spontaneous apology. They were always too concerned with "covering their own butts" that they couldn't really see what they were doing in a situation like that...as tho' the huge threat of pain stood between them and the mirror that they needed to look into to see themselves. All they saw was the threat of that hiney whackin'!!! And, with that monster looming over them all they could do was attack it...with rationalizations, denials, excuses, and counter attacks...

Perfect love casts out fear. 

My little one's not afraid of us.

I guess it could be said equally in reverse...fear casts out perfect love.

It's a sickening thought to think of what would change in our relationship with her if we were to begin to focus on punishment and spanking/hitting her for not obeying!

And...you definitely reap what you sow. 

The fruit is delicious and nutritious ;)

"It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance"

Fruit of not Spanking: Empathy (Guest Post)

I recently found my old diaries from when I was a kid…like I think a daily diary from the time I was 7 till I was over 18…(like I said...I've been blogging since I could write!!)

I was flipping thru 1980...the one when I was 11…and there were some pages where I was really sad. OK, most of the pages I am really sad. I was taking a picture of one page that was all dark and had lots of sad faces on it and my littlest one sees it and asks, "Were you sad on that page?"

I said, "Yes."

She asked, "Why?"

I replied simply that I was almost always sad when I was a kid because no one liked me. (btw...this statement has been nominated for "Understatement of the Year.")

She looked sad about that. "Nobody liked you?" 

I told her that no…nobody liked me when I was a kid.

Her eyes were looking sad and kinda' red, but, I wasn't sure if it was what I was telling her or because it was...well...midnight!!! ;)

I took her bowl of soup that I'd been preparing for her over and sat it down at the table and sat her with it. 

About 30 seconds passes and she says, "Didn't you have a mom and dad?"

Her older brothers reply for me that yes, I did, and that my mom and dad didn't like me much, either.

Another 30 seconds passes...She gets up and comes over to me looks up and says, "Did you have us when you were little?"

"No, Tori. Why? You would have been nice to me, right?"

She said, "Yes."

Now, I can tell that her eyes aren't looking all red just because she's up late. She's truly troubled by what I've told her. I wonder if I should have told her this or not? She looked almost like she was going to cry. 

I asked her, "Don't you like that nobody liked me?" 

She said, "No. It's sad. It's horrible."

She said horrible!

In her little mind…she thought that if I had a mom and dad then they would have liked me. 

In her little mind...she can't fathom a world where mom and dad don't like their children. 

In her little mind...she thought that if she had been there when I was little she would have liked me. 

In her little mind...when she looked at me and thought about me being little and nobody liking me…she at 4 years of age could feel my pain to the point it hurt her and she just reached out and gently held me. 

This...is what children who aren't spanked...act like...

Not monsters...

Quite the opposite...

Afraid of a world run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating?

What would a world look like if it were run by adults who'd never been struck by their parents? People who got rewarded just for trying even if they didn't win?

Statistics would indicate that most of us (more than 80%) know that fear that we felt as children when we'd done something that we knew our parents weren't going to like.

Sometimes we had done it on purpose, and sometimes it was an accident, but we knew either way "we were in trouble" and we were "gonna get it." When we knew we were "in trouble" the farthest thing from our minds at that point was "what we'd done" or "how to fix what we'd done" but what was foremost on our minds was "what we had comin'!" True? Ai yai yai! We could almost feel the paddle on our butts, our skin almost prickling from the thought of it, and we would have done anything to avoid it! (Even now, it makes my butt feel a little weird just remembering!) 

Today, I have 8 children ages 28 to 6. Right before my 6 year old was born our household went thru a huge...huge change: we stopped using spanking as a parenting method.

For years I was familiar with all the reactions that children who "know what's coming" had when caught doing wrong. 

Among the reactions are things like:

hiding

You get a report from another kid that one did something naughty. When you investigate, the perp can't be found anywhere!

denial and lying

You find the hiding one and say, "What did you do?" 

"Nothing!"

Or, you ask, "Who broke this thing?"

"Not me!!!!"

blaming

"My brother made me do it!!!"

begging for mercy while holding hands over their bottoms

Something important is there in all those reactions. All of the reactions that the children had to doing wrong were focused on what?

The punishment.

Those children…when they make mistakes…clearly fear punishment…of that there is no doubt. And, many of those children who are instilled with a sincere and real fear of punishment are effectively deterred from ever doing the same "wrong" thing again. 

But, is that really what we wanna be taught and teach our children: to fear punishment?

Is "fearing punishment" a good character quality?

Is it what we look for in leaders? Is it what we look for in mates? I mean, do you listen to political campaigns and hear them professing proudly, "Vote for me! I will balance the budget and I fear punishment!" Do you log onto online dating and look for potential mates who "fear punishment?" 

That would be silly. We don't look to leaders who "fear" or base their decisions on "fear" because "fear" is not a noble quality. Fear is the quality of cowards, isn't it? Fear is focused on "me."

And, what about people who perhaps find themselves in a situation where there will be no punishment? What then? What type of person is underneath the person who is held back by punishment's threat? That is what really counts...the choices someone will make even when they know they won't get caught. 

So, as I mentioned earlier…my 8th child has never been struck. Not just that she's really never been punished. I don't take her toys, make her go to bed early, yell at her, or sit her in time-outs.

So, she basically is to become what the image above "fears" for the future of our nation. What if our nation's future leaders were all raised like this? 

What horror awaits us??

She has given me a glimpse of what the future holds...and I will now share it with you...

A few years ago she and her older sister were sitting in the back seat while we were driving down the road. They were talking to each other about something that had to do with a recent "naughty behavior" event…

Then, my 6-year old (then 4) turns her attention to me and says to me: 

"Mom! When we be bad, you need to forgive us, or we will be sad." 

This is how she saw being caught being bad. 

Where was her focus?

What did she fear?

What did she expect and hope for?

"When we be bad you need to forgive us or we will be sad."

Her focus was not on punishment.
Her focus was on the relationship.
She did not fear punishment.
She feared the breach in the relationship caused by the "naughtiness."
She hoped for and expected restoration when a relationship is breached.

The thing she feared as the "worst thing" that can happen from being bad…is that if I don't forgive her then that will make her sad. 

I thought about this some more in the days after she said it and I realized that yes, when she was "bad"...even today...

She doesn't hide. 

She doesn't deny having done it or lie about what she's done. 

She doesn't blame her siblings.

She doesn't put her hands over her butt and look afraid. 

She didn't and still doesn't fear me at all so...she comes right to me and tells me what happened and immediately asks me to forgive her. 

So, I ask…What horror would befall our great nation if our leaders were to be raised this way?

Imagine a politician who...doesn't hide from his mistakes...

Imagine a politician who doesn't deny wrongdoing or...lie?!!!!!

Imagine a president who doesn't blame the other party for the country's problems...

Imagine a politician more focused on restoring the country and fixing it's problems than avoiding the wrath of any particular group?

Yes...just imagine...

I'm not alone in finding that meme annoying. Someone else did, also, and posted it March 1, 2013 on Facebook with a few corrections ;)

Guest Post: a lesson in hypocrisy(ies) ....no penance required

i walked into my daughter's room to wake her for the day, sat down on her bed and looked over at her math workbook and the goniometer (a math tool) setting there amidst blankets and a million other things, and thought "she's going to lose that in this sh#$hole." 

<i'm so irritated at and frustrated with and overwhelmed by their messes.>

 i awoke her--and in the process of standing up and walking out of her room i made a subconscious choice, followed through mechanically, and forgot what i'd done (which you'll soon realize, which you can probably already guess). 

she came out of her room, we ate breakfast, got started on math; i asked her where her workbook and goniometer were, she promptly found the first but said she couldn't find the latter. 

i promptly told her she had to--couldn't do anything else in fact until she did so (because, i was thinking, she's the one who left it in that pile of crap on her bed). 

she insisted it wasn't there; i insisted it was, i'd seen it when i went in to wake her. she set about searching, high and low (between and under and against and inside and on top of...), in that room--and i didn't help ("why should i" i reasoned internally, "it's her mess, her irresponsibility, and i have other things to do"). 

she was exasperated and upset, and i remained insistent (up on my parental adult-with-authority platform) that she find it, although i did (with pious grace) let her know it wouldn't be needed for a couple days...but after that it would be, so "it better be found before then." 

....and all the while i had a tiny inkling of a thought that maybe i had picked it up and carried it out with me, knowing it'd get lost in the shuffle of sheets and stuff; and a recollection of a time or two or three when i had wrongly accused my kids of losing things and ended up finding them right where i'd set them; and a remembrance of the feeling of remorse after such times and the determination to not do it again ....but i ignored all such thoughts <i'm sorry God for not listening> and plowed ahead with placing blame on summer. 

....and then (later that morning)--i lifted up several items (my items) in a pile (my pile) on the dining room table, and there was the goniometer, right where i'd set it. 

--it's no wonder i had no recollection where i'd put it, my stuff and piles of stuff scattered around the house as they are. 

i apologized, and thought of what i must do to make it right--pay her? buy her a gift? --i felt the need to do penance. but in her face i saw forgiveness, humor even--she laughed at me, and smiled. "you've done it before mom, it's ok." 

and i've been thinking--when my children throw fits (which is what i did), when they act disgusted by me and say unkind things and make false assumptions and take their anger and frustration out on me (all that is uncomfortably personally familiar), and then when they come around (which they always do) and apologize, and reconnect....do i as the adult feel the need to administer punishment--take away a privilege, hang onto my (righteous) anger, require penance? ...or do i smile, maybe even laugh, and forgive, no holds barred, no penance required? 

--do i extend to my children the same grace they give to me?

that is the "footage" i will hold in my mind and heart--the image of my daughter's sweet smile, the sound of her gentle laugh, the feel of her forgiveness and absence of punishing anger, the lack of expectations for penance. and that is the grace i will extend to my children.

by Heather Schopp

What happens to kids if you don't spank?

So, yesterday...I'm at Sam's Club with three of my daughters. The youngest, age 6, has never been spanked...or "punished" to be taught lessons.

We're on our way through the store and she got "stuck." She decided she wanted me to buy a case of soda (which our family will consume in 12 hours and so I rarely buy it) and I just said, "No." She didn't feel like I was hearing her, I guess, and she really wanted me to buy sodas! So, she lingered behind, angry. My 11 y/o walked back to where she was and reached out to grab her arm and "make" her come along with us, but it didn't work out that way.

The 6 y/o stood her ground, grabbed her sister's hand and dug in her finger nails, breaking the skin in one place.

So, now...it's my turn. What am I going to do about this situation? What lesson will I teach and what will the 6 y/o take with her into adulthood regarding this moment? What example am I about to set?

At first, I was tempted to fall back into my old ways and do the lazy thing...and just scold her and tell her to tell her sister, "sorry." That temptation is always there. 10 years ago I'd have ended the whole situation in a matter of seconds and just scolded, and spanked that child. 

But, trouble is...even when I'm out in public and "busy"...if I'm supposed to be teaching my little daughter how to be a good and godly adult someday...I myself have to resist the temptations to be "bad" and handle my problems the same way that 6 y/o just did (by striking). One of the biggest lessons I'll ever teach is my example, true? And, even in the instantly-gratifying-USA usually the right road isn't the easy one...

Matthew 7:12-14

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." 

So, I stopped shopping, knelt down, and I asked her why she wanted the sodas so badly? She told me that she'd wanted to have some to share with everyone at home. 

I asked her, "If I did something really mean to Dad to get you a toy would you be happy about that?"

She said she would not.

I asked her, "Do you think the other kids at home would be happy to know that she'd hurt Evy to be able to get them the sodas?"

She said they would not.

I then pointed out some other things to her...

- you were mad at me and so you were mean to your sister and that's not fair to her.

- your sister is only trying to help you and you hurt her because you were mad at me and that wasn't nice.

- when you feel better, which you will in a few minutes, your sister's hand is still going to hurt and that's not fair. She will have pain in her hand for a long time when you feel all better and it wasn't even her fault you were mad.

These are all things a grown-up can process and understand, true? But, little kids need to be taught how to see and process these things... (actually, sometimes grown-ups need help with this...and I wonder why?)

Because kidnapping is something our family has dealt with in real life in the past (* see below), I also asked her, "What do you think your sister would do if a bad guy came in the store and tried to take you?"

Her eyes got wide and serious...and totally focused on me. (Because she was not sitting there afraid of anything I was about to do to her...I had her full attention. She was not even a little bit focused on doing something to avoid pain...she was only listening to what I was going to say next...)

She said she thought her sister would try to help her. I agreed and added to it, "And, you know what? She would jump on that guy and do anything she could to stop him from hurting you or stealing you even if it meant that he would hurt her or even kill her."

Her eyes...at this point are totally glued to me. She was focused on what I was trying to teach her.

I then pointed out to her that she had just hurt that person who would even die for her all because she was mad at me. I asked her what she thought of that? She said that she thought it was very bad and mean. And, I then reminded her that she needs to never hurt the people who really care about her. 

At this point now...she was almost crying. 

And...she was not almost crying because...she was afraid I was going to spank her. She was not almost crying because she had just gotten her hiney smacked and was in pain. She was not almost crying because of anything to do with her outsides..but because she realized deep within her little heart...what she had done wrong to her sister. I'd gotten inside her heart...where the motivations (only part of our behavior that matters) for our behavior are...

Matthew 15:16-19

Jesus said, “Are you still lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.

I picked her up then and told her how much I loved her and she just held me. I sat her butt on the cart's handle and pushed my way down the aisle with her in my arms till we got to the next thing I needed to throw in the cart and then I set her down.

Half way down the aisle...she was all better. And, she was also "a better person". She had learned a bunch of lessons...And, she looked "happy." She wasn't nursing her wounds (sore butt) and she wasn't upset at all for herself...

"the truth had set her free."

The two older ones were not where we could see them as we rounded the next aisle and I hear behind me that sweet little voice ask, "Where's Evy? I need to tell her sorry!"

And, as soon as we were all reunited she told her sister she was sorry and looked like she really meant it...because it had come from her own heart and was not something she was forced to say out of fear...

A lot of parents would feel like she "got away with it" and it's a really sad sad attitude for a parent to have because retribution...pay-backs...revenge for wrongs...is not for us to dole out to anyone. And, that is exactly what is in the heart of a person who feels someone needs to suffer so as to "not get away with" something. If you feel your child "needs to pay for what they did wrong" or "learn their lesson" by suffering...you're doing it wrong.

My little unspanked 6 y/o definitely "learned her lesson" in my several-minute disciplinary session with her.

She learned that...
- mom cares enough to stop what she's doing to help her
- mom won't hurt her when she's bad
- mom will tell her the truth when she's bad
- finding out that truth can hurt but helps you become a better person
- there is hope to become a better person when you make mistakes
- mom will still love her after she's been bad
- she should not hurt the people who love her
- she should not hurt people when she's mad
- when she lashes out at someone in anger that person will suffer for a while and that it's not fair
- her sister would probably die for her

These lessons will apply even when no one is around to punish her if she does something mean or bad again. She will not consider behaving this way in the context of, "Is anyone looking? Can I get away with it?" because she will never "get away" with behaving like this even if she is the only one to see because these lessons are in her heart now...

And, they would all be made invisible if they were in the shadow of a painful spanking.

Romans 12:19 

Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord.

And, not just her...but me, too. What would I have missed out on had I been of the "spare the rod..." mindset an felt that I needed to "teach her a lesson" using my body against hear body and not my mind and heart connected to hers? I, too, would have lost out and learned a lousy lesson. The negative effects of spanking aren't just the child's...they're ours, too.

I encourage you...

Really look at how you act when you are "disciplining" your child. What example are you setting?

Really look at what you are teaching them. 

Really look at what lessons they have absorbed. What lessons have you absorbed?

And, have you just taught that lesson with your body? Or...your mind and heart?

And, mostly...remember...that there is no fear in love. You may think you lovingly spank your children, but if they have fear of being spanked...there is no love in that. And, that fear will ruin any lesson you ever want to teach them...

Let the violence in the church stop!

Matthew 11:12

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.

- - -

*KIDNAPPING and our family

Tori's dad was 4 when his parents went to Guatemala. He lived there 40 years. At one point in time there was a kidnapping ring in operation and Grandpa was on that list. One morning, my husband awoke to the sound of the dogs barking angrily. Armed men were "escorting" one of the neighbors and 2 of her children toward my husband's home. 

Grandpa fled into the jungle. The kidnappers shot the family dog in front of them. Then, they took Grandma, one of Tori's aunts, and 2 houseguests. Ransom was demanded or they'd be killed. A military shoot-out with the kidnappers is what finally freed them.

A few years before that Tori's dad was taken out into the jungle and held at gunpoint while communist guerrillas burned their mission compound and my husband's airplanes. Tori's dad was to be executed that night but was released when help arrived.

When I lived there from 2000-2010 we had friends who were kidnapped and executed.

Finally, we were present when a mob burned a man alive and went bezerk for 3 days - chasing the police and army out of town. Tori's dad was taken hostage by the mob and I got a phone call from him during this informing me to get the kids out "now!" because our home was threatened. It was the most terrifying day of my life.

After that, there were rumors of people wanting to kidnap one of our children...and so now we live in Florida...(where even here we have wacko's who like to snag and harm kids.) 

So, if anyone thinks it's "over the top" or an attempt to terrify my child into contrition by bringing up the "bad guy taking her" I think you better understand why I said that. It's a topic that all my kids have heard about and can totally relate to in a way your average American kid cannot...

There is a book about my husband's family available here...

Does more spanking = less crime and delinquency?

I think we've all seen this:

It basically says that if you don't spank your kids the only other alternative is that they run hog wild! 

Spanking = good parenting and good kids = safe world. 
Not spanking = bad parenting and bad kids = crime!!

Right?

Either you spank...and raise good productive citizens...OR...if you don't spank...you raise brats who have no self control and could very well end up criminals!!!

Right?

I think we've all heard it, and, if you're someone who sees spanking as a valuable parenting tool...you believe it. And, because spanking does give immediate results, I understand why you believe that. I do. But, we have to remember that we're dealing with moral human beings...and just because we do something to them and they give us an "immediate" response...that doesn't tell us what's necessarily actually going on on the inside of them, does it? The only way to tell how spanking really affects kids is to look at the big picture. You have to look at how many in your society spank...and then look at society at large and see how the whole society is doing.

Well...there are people out there who like gathering data. I'm thankful for those people because I'm a person who likes seeing the data they collect...

Doing a search on countries and the % of their population that is incarcerated I found many websites with the same data. Below is a chart I found on one of those sites that has the data laid out quite nicely, I think, showing how many people per 100,000 of the population that are in jail...So, I copied/pasted it here...

And...I added a little detail to the chart...

I also did searches on countries in the world...in which using hitting/spanking/corporal punishment as a parenting tool...is banned and highlighted those countries in yellow.

According to the above graphic...the countries in the top spots for having the most % of their populations in jail are going to be countries in which spanking is banned! Because with more of "this" (spanking) there'd be less of "this" (delinquents/crime). Therefore, countries where spanking is banned...crime should be rampant.

According to a wide variety of sources I find...somewhere around 90% of US parents spank...

So, according to that graphic...the US should be pretty far down on the scale with crime rates well below the countries in which spanking is banned...because more spanking = less crime and if we have 90% of our population spanking...that's almost our whole society...

Here is what the information shows...

Rank	Country (or dependent territory) Countries not in yellow = spanking is not banned Yellow = country in which spanking is banned	Prisoners per 100,000 population
1	United States of America	716
2	St. Kitts and Nevis	649
3	Seychelles	641
4	Virgin Islands (USA)	539
5	Rwanda	527
6	Georgia	514
7	Cuba	510
8	Russian Federation	502
9	Anguilla (United Kingdom)	480
10	Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)	460c
11	Belarus	438
12	El Salvador	425
13	Bermuda (United Kingdom)	417
14	Azerbaijan	407
14	Belize	407
16	Grenada	402
17	St. Vincent and the Grenadines	389
18	Antigua and Barbuda	387
19	Cayman Islands (United Kingdom)	385
20	Barbados	377
21	Bahamas	371
22	St. Maarten (Netherlands)	369
23	Panama	366
24	Dominica	356
25	Palau	348
26	Greenland (Denmark)	340
27	Thailand	337
28	Ukraine	334
29	Iran	333
30	Curaçao (Netherlands)	331
31	Guam (USA)	328
32	Kazakhstan	316
33	Costa Rica	314
33	Lithuania	314
33	Swaziland	314c
36	St. Lucia	313
37	Maldives	311c
38	South Africa	310
39	Latvia	304
40	Puerto Rico (USA)	303
41	French Guiana/Guyane (France)	297c
42	Chile	285
43	Taiwan	282
44	Mongolia	280
45	Uruguay	279
46	Botswana	267
47	Brazil	260
47	Guyana	260
49	Trinidad and Tobago	259
50	Estonia	252
51	Cape Verde (Cabo Verde)	246
52	Gibraltar (United Kingdom)	238
52	United Arab Emirates	238
54	Singapore	237
55	Israel	236
56	Colombia	235
57	Aruba (Netherlands)	228
58	Samoa (formerly Western Samoa)	227
59	Turkmenistan	224
60	Poland	220
61	Czech Republic	218
61	Montenegro	218
63	Martinique (France)	217
64	Dominican Republic	210
65	Mexico	206
66	Slovakia	203
67	Morocco	199
68	American Samoa (USA)	198
68	Tunisia	198
70	Gabon	196
71	New Zealand	194
72	Namibia	191
72	Suriname	191
74	Peru	190
75	Macau (China)	186
76	Moldova (Republic of)	183
77	Mauritius	182
78	Kyrgyzstan	181
79	Hungary	173
79	Saudi Arabia	173
81	Guernsey (United Kingdom)	172
82	New Caledonia (France)	171
83	Guadeloupe (France)	169
84	Turkey	168
85	Jersey (United Kingdom)	167
86	Jamaica	163
87	Reunion (France)	161
88	Honduras	159
89	Algeria	156
89	Fiji	156
91	Armenia	155
92	Serbia	154
92	United Kingdom:  England &  Wales	154
94	French Polynesia (France)	152
94	Uzbekistan	152c
96	Tonga	151
96	United Kingdom: Scotland	151
98	Spain	150
99	Romania	149
99	Venezuela	149
101	Albania	148
102	Bulgaria	146
103	Argentina	145
104	Northern Mariana Islands (USA)	142
105	Nauru	139
106	Malta	138
107	Kuwait	137
108	Bahrain	136
108	Ethiopia	136
110	Bhutan	135
111	Hong Kong (China)	132
112	Tajikistan	130
113	Australia	129
114	Isle of Man (United Kingdom)	127
114	Portugal	127
114	Vietnam	127
117	Kenya	126
117	Malaysia	126
117	Zambia	126c
120	Luxembourg	124
121	Kiribati	122
121	Nicaragua	122c
123	China	121 or 170[2]
123	Zimbabwe	121c
125	Myanmar (formerly Burma)	120
125	Tuvalu	120
127	Cameroon	119
128	Burundi	118
128	Lebanon	118
130	Croatia	115
130	Iraq	115
132	Canada	114
133	Bolivia	112
133	Cyprus (Republic of)	112
133	Macedonia (former Yugoslav Republic of)	112
136	Greece	111
136	Sao Tome e Principe	111
138	Philippines	110
139	Cook Islands (New Zealand)	109
139	Italy	109
141	Lesotho	107
142	Brunei Darussalam	105
143	Austria	104
143	Cambodia	104
143	Mayotte (France)	104
146	France	102
147	Angola	100
147	Belgium	100
147	Sri Lanka	100
150	Paraguay	97
151	Uganda	96
151	United Kingdom: Northern Ireland	96
153	Ireland	95
154	Jordan	95
154	Madagascar	95
156	Republic of Korea	92
157	South Sudan	89c
158	Guatemala	87
158	Netherlands	87
160	Ecuador	86
161	Micronesia, Federated States of	85
162	Tanzania	84
163	Djibouti	83
163	Germany	83
165	Egypt	80c
166	Bosnia and Herzegovina: Federation	77
167	Switzerland	76
168	Benin	75
168	Bosnia and Herzegovina: Republika Srpska	75
170	Afghanistan	74
170	Denmark (banned spanking in 1997)	74
170	Malawi	74
173	Andorra	73
173	Norway (banned spanking in 1987)	73
173	Vanuatu	73
176	Haiti	72
177	Sweden (banned spanking in 1979)	70
178	Laos	69
178	Mozambique	69
180	Kosovo/Kosova	66c
181	Marshall Islands	64
181	Slovenia	64
183	Oman	61
183	Togo	61
185	Qatar	60c
186	Finland (banned spanking in 1983)	59
187	Indonesia	58
187	Papua New Guinea	58
187	Syria	58
190	Senegal	57
191	Cote d'Ivoire	56
191	Gambia	56c
191	Sudan	56c
194	Japan	55
195	Ghana	54
196	Libya	49
197	Yemen	48
198	Iceland	47
198	Mauritania	47
198	Solomon Islands	47
201	Nepal	45c
202	Niger	43c
203	Bangladesh	42
203	Sierra Leone	42
205	Chad	41
205	Guinea Bissau	41
207	Pakistan	40
208	Liberia	39
208	Republic of Guinea	39c
210	Mali	36
211	Monaco	34
212	Congo (Brazzaville)	33c
212	Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire)	33c
214	Nigeria	31
215	India	30
215	Liechtenstein	30
217	Burkina Faso	28
218	Timor-Leste (formerly East Timor)	22
219	Faeroe Islands (Denmark)	21
220	Central African Republic	19
220	Comoros	19c
221	San Marino	3[3]

The first time one of the non-spanking countries even appears on the chart is #30...with a rate of 331 incarcerated people per 100,000 of the population. That is less than half of the # of people the 90% spanking USA has in jail. Less than half.

And, one interesting and noteworthy country in this list...for Christians to take notice of...is Israel...Israel is the country full of the people who are direct descendants of the people who wrote the Bible who would best comprehend the cultural and social things and history in the Bible. In Israel...they don't use "English" Bibles...transliterated (as in not translated...transliterated) NIV's written on an American 8th grade reading level. No. They still use some of the Bible's original languages and still use the Old Testament. 

The country that has the best ability to comprehend the meaning of the Old Testament verses of "the Biblical rod"...has spanking banned...

So, you have a choice. You can continue to choose to believe something...that's not true. Or you can choose to change. You spank your kids for continuing to do the same wrong thing over and over? Even after, "I told you not to do that! You know better!" they do it again and you punish them for that, right? So, what are you going to do now that you know better?

According to the chart the worlds where kids were never spanked...
That world is 50% less crime ridden than the USA...
What are you afraid of?

May 26, 2013

I got an idea of something to do to that graphic in the beginning last night and did it...and posted it on a page I admin on Facebook, "I Love Kids."

I believe this is MUCH MORE accurate...
And, actually, science would agree with me...

LINKS TO OTHER ARTICLES ON 

THE LINK BETWEEN SPANKING AND CRIME

"Does Outlawing Spanking Lower the Crime Rate Years Later?"

"Numerous studies over the years have found that children who are spanked are more likely to become teens and then adults who are violent. They are also more prone to suffer with psychological problems, abuse drugs and alcohol, and own firearms, some studies have found."

Spanking and Crime Rates

"Mr Pfeiffer has found a correlation between declining rates of children being spanked (or otherwise punished physically) and subsequent decreases in violent crime. In Germany, for example, it used to be common until well into the last century to discipline kids in this way. Not doing so almost amounted to being negligent. But then parents and teachers gradually stopped beating children.

When Mr Pfeiffer’s team polled adult Germans in 1992, 26% answered that they had been raised without any physical punishment at all. In the latest poll, soon to be released, that ratio has gone up to two thirds.

People who as children experienced the “powerlessness” of frequent spankings report a disproportionately greater interest later in life to own guns, Mr Pfeiffer says. They also demand more draconian prison sentences, including the death penalty, for convicted criminals. And they seem more prone to violence themselves. In a study of 45,000 ninth-graders Mr Pfeiffer conducted in 2007-08, those kids who had been beaten by their parents were five times as likely to commit repeated crimes or to use cannabis, and missed school four times more frequently for ten days a year or more."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2013/07/spanking-and-crime-rates