Showing posts with label Guest Posts. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Guest Posts. Show all posts

Monday, March 14, 2016

Guest Post from the "Anti Spanking Fight Club" on Facebook

I keep hearing about this "calm spanking" being the one true way to hit a child. I've yet to meet ANY parent who "calmly" spanked. And I'm speaking of Christian and other folk who have claimed that they practice this with their children. Hitting is violence, it causes the adrenal gland to over produce in both the parent, and the unfortunate child.

That's why so many adults who were spanked as children suffer from anxiety, and tend to be fearful. That's why adults who were spanked have a tendency to have weight issues. That's why adults who were spanked don't go outside of their familiar boxes, and they do "safe" things, like jobs where they don't have to think too deeply.

That's why emotions are scary. Feelings are scary. They are terrified of making mistakes. Decisions are painful. So they don't take chances.

That's why they tend to live in the same town forever. That's why adults who were hit have a tendency towards bigotry because they are fearful of different people.

That's why they get headaches and have stomach problems disproportionately over adults who were never spanked. Adults who were raised in true calm environments where purposely inflicted pain was not a part of their upbringing have less fears and are more open to diversity and new experiences.

That's why they feel their biggest accomplishment is never going to jail. That's why they become angry and emotional when they hear of parents who don't practice hurting children's bodies.

How devestating to realize that you were hit for nothing! So the "calmly spanked" adult makes untrue value judgements such as "children who are not spanked shoot up schools." Or "children who are not spanked are lazy and entitled."

And...that's why adults who were hit, hit their own children.

There is no such thing as a "calm" spanking, or an adult who is "perfectly fine" who was calmly spanked as a child. Not saying that people who were hit are terrible people, or dysfunctional people, but you're not "fine" no one is totally "fine" and that in it's self is delusional if you feel that being spanked made you into a great person. None of us are unscathed, even under the most loving of circumstances.

Life hurts at times.

I've been in this world for awhile, I've known you "calmly" spanked adults. Many of you, and you're not fine. You're just blind to your many issues because you were taught to not feel. I'm not writing this to be mean, my heart breaks for you. You are my family, my love ones, my friends and my neighbors. I'm married to a man raised in a "calm spanking" household. Yes you love your parents, yes they loved you, but they were wrong, their parents were wrong and no one is "perfectly fine" for surviving a painful childhood.

Let's do better by our children. Give them a true calm and peaceful upbringing that is pain free. So they don't have to just be "fine." Let's aim for our children to thrive!

Check out Anti Spanking Fight Club on Facebook


Thursday, October 22, 2015

Guest Post: What happens when Christians don't spank?

Ok so this is the deal. We receive compliments ALL.THE.TIME about how well behaved T is. We do not spank him. We do not punish him. We follow some really simple guidelines that help us know how to help him when he's struggling with behavior.

That's it. It's available for everyone. There is tons of support and help for parents who get frustrated. It's really not rocket science.

I get it! I totally get the frustration kids can cause us to have....but it's not their problem, it's our problem. I am in control of me and my reaction to my kiddo. When I'm in control, I notice it's so much easier for him to be in control. When I become impatient and lose control and yell, my child reacts to that with more bad behavior and it takes him longer to get in control.

If I want respect from my child, I have to model respect every time I interact with my child. That's just how it works. So when I hear parents say my child is disrespectful and won't listen, I am left wondering how much respect and listening the parent gives the child.

How you treat your child, your child will treat you. It's called reaping what you sow.

~ Christina Driggers, mother of 4



Tuesday, June 2, 2015

Conquering by force is short-lived: Guest Post by Stephanie Cox

""Force is all-conquering, but its victories are short-lived." 
-Abraham Lincoln

This is so true. It's easy to use force to make children obey. It's quick and easy. But, it is short-lived. Soon we must threaten and often use force again to make them obey. 

What we don't see is the damage being done to our children. They learn to obey to avoid force and to use force with others to get what they want. 

They can become forever locked in that child who is always forced to obey. They can't be their true selves. 

Yes, force is all-conquering but it is also very harmful to these little humans called children."

- Stephanie G. Cox M.S. Ed.
author of Gentle Firmness



Wednesday, May 20, 2015

Taking the first step in gentle parenting: Guest Post by Stephanie Cox

"Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

I love this quote so much. For many Christian and secular parents, turning away from punitive parenting and corporal punishment to gentle and firm parenting is a huge first step in faith. It means rejecting what most of the culture is teaching and doing. It also means getting ridiculed and told that your children will turn out as "brats."

It means for us Christians rejecting a very prevalent church doctrine that is touted as "Biblical truth."  While the Church is ever so slowly coming to the realization that God never intended for children to be spanked/hit, many are actually afraid to come out of the closet due fear of being told that they and their children are going to Hell. 

And though the gentle parenting movement is growing and there are a ton of resources on the Internet for how to truly discipline our children, it is often still a lonely journey as sometimes finding other local gentle parents is very difficult. 

Often parents moving from punishment to discipline don't know what TO do instead. They've only experienced painful corporal punishment. Taking a first step despite not being able to see where the staircase leads is a a huge leap of faith. It's scary to go against the grain. Children are viewed as property and burdens in this society. We who are standing against this must have faith that we are making a difference even though we don't always feel like we are. 

Yes, we must have a lot of faith in this gentle parenting movement. I often get weary trying to teach and advocate for the respectful treatment of children. There are many days I want to give up. But then I'll look into the eyes of an innocent child and think, "If I don't speak up for them, who will?"

This verse also encourages me to keep going.  "Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary" (Galatians 6:9). Yes, God and Martin Luther King, Jr. are right. Faith is taking that first step when we cannot see where we are going. 

Stephanie G. Cox, M.S.Ed.
author of Gentle Firmness



Friday, May 1, 2015

Proverbs 13:24 (Guest post)

*Spare the Rod Spoil the Child* Proverbs 13:24 -- or in the ultra cool King James: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

This is a verse people love to quote -- but curious how many actually know what a *rod* is? The word describes a shepherding implement -- I'm including some pictures and as you can see it's a very large implement. In fact -- it was a weapon.

Many use this verse to advocate for hitting children -- if you hit your child with a shepherd rod you'd kill them. Sincerely.

So what does the verse mean?

Let's think through it -- it clearly advocates utilizing the rod because we love our children. Chasten is a word associated with discipline which really means to train and guide by instruction and practice. Discipline can include punishing, but definitely means to train, teach, guide, and instruct.

Ok....so what did the Shepherd use the rod for? Well it was an implement used primarily to protect against wild animals. It was a weapon -- and a very hefty weapon. He didn't use it to hit his sheep in his care -- but rather enemies and predators.



Why is this important? Because people need to seriously think twice before using this scripture in conjunction with hitting/spanking a child. It's not advocating for that -- or against it. It's advocating that fathers do not foresake their Shepherd duties -- guide, protect, discipline, lead, train, instruct, and most importantly model good behavior.

As for hitting/spanking a child -- there is always a better choice. And no I don't mean *time outs* -- there really are more than 2 options for discipline when you really think it through. Let God's spirit guide you and I assure you you'll be surprised that He doesn't encourage you to get a rod and hit your children with it. Shocking.

Look to Psalm 23 for our example -- God uses His rod and staff to comfort and guide us. We follow and He leads.

Incidentally if you choose to comment and say *I was beat with a switch and I turned out fine* -- I will spare you the effort. My response will be *congratulations you deserve a cookie*. I've included a picture of one for your benefit.


Also please spare me the whole *the problem with kids today is they were never spanked*. 94% of American parents of children aged 3 or 4 reported spanking them in the previous year. There is no shortage of spanking. if you think behaviour of children is a problem today -- it's not because of lack of being hit. That statistic is from 2012 btw.

And third "don't tell me not to spank my kids". Fine - I won't -- but I will say don't use Proverbs 13:24 to justify it. Unless of course you'd like to go get a shepherd rod and hit them with that -- then by all means justify the action with this verse to the courthouse and see if you get a lesser sentence.

Peace be with everyone
:)

Just thought I'd share. If I've offended anyone -- I apologize in advance. It's a touchy subject. Hopefully this is informative - it was definitely long.

~ Daniel Smith

Saturday, April 11, 2015

Fruit of not Spanking: Empathy (Guest Post)

I recently found my old diaries from when I was a kid…like I think a daily diary from the time I was 7 till I was over 18…(like I said...I've been blogging since I could write!!)

I was flipping thru 1980...the one when I was 11…and there were some pages where I was really sad. OK, most of the pages I am really sad. I was taking a picture of one page that was all dark and had lots of sad faces on it and my littlest one sees it and asks, "Were you sad on that page?"

I said, "Yes."

She asked, "Why?"

I replied simply that I was almost always sad when I was a kid because no one liked me. (btw...this statement has been nominated for "Understatement of the Year.")

She looked sad about that. "Nobody liked you?" 

I told her that no…nobody liked me when I was a kid.

Her eyes were looking sad and kinda' red, but, I wasn't sure if it was what I was telling her or because it was...well...midnight!!! ;)

I took her bowl of soup that I'd been preparing for her over and sat it down at the table and sat her with it. 

About 30 seconds passes and she says, "Didn't you have a mom and dad?"

Her older brothers reply for me that yes, I did, and that my mom and dad didn't like me much, either.

Another 30 seconds passes...She gets up and comes over to me looks up and says, "Did you have us when you were little?"

"No, Tori. Why? You would have been nice to me, right?"

She said, "Yes."

Now, I can tell that her eyes aren't looking all red just because she's up late. She's truly troubled by what I've told her. I wonder if I should have told her this or not? She looked almost like she was going to cry. 

I asked her, "Don't you like that nobody liked me?" 

She said, "No. It's sad. It's horrible."

She said horrible!

In her little mind…she thought that if I had a mom and dad then they would have liked me. 

In her little mind...she can't fathom a world where mom and dad don't like their children. 

In her little mind...she thought that if she had been there when I was little she would have liked me. 

In her little mind...when she looked at me and thought about me being little and nobody liking me…she at 4 years of age could feel my pain to the point it hurt her and she just reached out and gently held me. 

This...is what children who aren't spanked...act like...

Not monsters...
Quite the opposite...





Tuesday, March 17, 2015

Guest Post: What's Proverbs 23 talking about?

Do not hold back discipline from the child,
Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
You shall strike him with the rod
And rescue his soul from Sheol" 
Proverbs 23:13-14 NASB 

So many Christians believe this verse and the other "Rod" verses are to be taken literally. Some very watered down versions of the Bible even say to spank. But, if we were to take this literally, wouldn't that make God a liar? 


Let's think about this.

1. The Hebrew word for rod is Shebet. It was a big heavy stick with spikes on it. Striking a small child with this instrument even gently would kill the child.

2. Sheol is the Hebrew word for death, not Hell, as many Christians believe. To say that spanking/hitting children will save them from Hell would discredit the horrible suffering and agony of what Christ did on the cross. All we would need to be saved from Hell would be a good beating. Yet, many reject God due to "loving spankings."

3. Many children have physically died from spankings. This verse and the rest of the Bible does not give "rules" on how not to go too far. In fact, the King James Version of the Bible, which many fundamentalist Christians toute as the "only true version," tells us to beat children with the rod. 

Again, this would make God a liar to say that a child will not die if we beat her/him. God NEVER lies ("so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us" (Hebrews 6:18, NASB)!

4. Even if children don't physically die after being spanked/hit, an emotional/spiritual part of them does die and their brains are damaged. This is NOT good. This makes it harder for them to receive God's grace.

5. Jesus said a lot about children. Why did He not talk about spanking/hitting them?

Considering all these facts, which I explore much more deeply in my book, Gentle Firmness, wouldn't it make more sense to interept these verses in keeping with the original context and actual meanings? 

The deeper we look into the original context and meaning, the clearer it becomes that God never intended for children to be spanked/hit.

If we discipline children with God's Word, they will not die. 

If we protect children with the rod, they will not die. 

If we use our authority properly to teach and guide our children in a gentle but firm way, they will not die.
Punishment leads to death. Discipline leads to LIFE!


"But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these"
Matthew 19:14 NASB

Let's listen to Jesus instead of man!

- Stephanie Cox


Saturday, December 27, 2014

Why seeing our children as sinners is wrong: Guest post by Stephanie Cox

I was recently asked why gentle Christian parents and advocates don't talk about sin when it comes to children much. The answer is because what most Christians believe is sin in children usually isn't. 

A toddler saying, "no!" when asked to do something isn't sin, it's the child exploring independence and boundaries. A preschooler crying over not having something they really wanted is the child just having a hard time. 

Even biting, hitting, kicking, and cussing in young children is NOT sin. Young children needing food, love, comfort, room to play is not sin. 

Sin is when we truly understand something is wrong and goes against God and we have total control over ourselves and can tap into God's strength to resist, yet choose wholeheartedly to go against God. THAT is sin!! 

Every child is different. Every child will sin like us. But, before 12-years-old, I don't believe children truly sin. We slowly teach children about sin by discipline without punishment. By providing them with appropriate behaviors. And, by teaching them about God. 

Also, when we look for sin in children, it makes us hypersensitive to all "inappropriate behavior." It makes us want to punish for perceived sinfulness. We look at children as "little sinners" rather than blessings as the Bible says they are. Jesus loves children and told us to be like them. 

When sin is the focus, we become proud. We become judges. We think more highly of ourselves than we should so we can "beat that sin right out of that child."

In reality, we are WORSE sinners than older children. Jesus said to get the plank out of our own eyes before removing the speck out of our brother's eye. This applies to children too! 

Sin is sooooooooo much more than a child having a meltdown. Childish behavior is NOT sin. Rejecting God is! Hurting children is! 

Let's focus on teaching and guiding children instead of worrying what childish behavior is sin. Give children the tools to choose good over bad so when real sin comes their way, they can tap into God and make more righteous decisions over sinful ones.

~ Stephanie Cox
author of Gentle Firmness


Monday, December 1, 2014

The Cry of a Christian Mom's Heart: Another Reason Not to Spank

Christian parents are aware that the Bible says that the way we train up our children that when they're old they won't depart from it. But, what about all the things you do wrong that they struggle to depart from?

When a child is raised with love being mixed with pain (as in punishments and spankings), no matter how much they want to depart from it...it is hard...

Here is the cry of a Christian mom's heart as she struggles because of her own upbringing...to raise her children with love and understanding, and not with force and coercion...

"I feel so frustrated and inadequate. I'm aware more than ever how my upbringing has robbed me of any idea of what it looks like to parent normally, healthfully.

I can read all the books in the world but when it comes crunch time, it's the crap ingrained in me that comes out. No, I don't hit the kids, but I certainly don't always respond to them with wisdom, kindness, and love. I'm easily annoyed and my knee jerk reaction to broken things and messes, saddens me. Cause truly, it's just not a big deal. 

Response and relationship is more important. I feel like I'm constantly trying to repair, apologize, assure. I'm worried that my kids are going to struggle with anger, self doubt, self esteem, and the whole array of things that I do because even with all my knowledge and trying to do better, I'm still broken and rubbing off on them."



Monday, November 17, 2014

Guest Post: a lesson in hypocrisy(ies) ....no penance required

i walked into my daughter's room to wake her for the day, sat down on her bed and looked over at her math workbook and the goniometer (a math tool) setting there amidst blankets and a million other things, and thought "she's going to lose that in this sh#$hole." 

<i'm so irritated at and frustrated with and overwhelmed by their messes.>

 i awoke her--and in the process of standing up and walking out of her room i made a subconscious choice, followed through mechanically, and forgot what i'd done (which you'll soon realize, which you can probably already guess). 

she came out of her room, we ate breakfast, got started on math; i asked her where her workbook and goniometer were, she promptly found the first but said she couldn't find the latter. 

i promptly told her she had to--couldn't do anything else in fact until she did so (because, i was thinking, she's the one who left it in that pile of crap on her bed). 

she insisted it wasn't there; i insisted it was, i'd seen it when i went in to wake her. she set about searching, high and low (between and under and against and inside and on top of...), in that room--and i didn't help ("why should i" i reasoned internally, "it's her mess, her irresponsibility, and i have other things to do"). 

she was exasperated and upset, and i remained insistent (up on my parental adult-with-authority platform) that she find it, although i did (with pious grace) let her know it wouldn't be needed for a couple days...but after that it would be, so "it better be found before then." 

....and all the while i had a tiny inkling of a thought that maybe i had picked it up and carried it out with me, knowing it'd get lost in the shuffle of sheets and stuff; and a recollection of a time or two or three when i had wrongly accused my kids of losing things and ended up finding them right where i'd set them; and a remembrance of the feeling of remorse after such times and the determination to not do it again ....but i ignored all such thoughts <i'm sorry God for not listening> and plowed ahead with placing blame on summer. 

....and then (later that morning)--i lifted up several items (my items) in a pile (my pile) on the dining room table, and there was the goniometer, right where i'd set it. 

--it's no wonder i had no recollection where i'd put it, my stuff and piles of stuff scattered around the house as they are. 

i apologized, and thought of what i must do to make it right--pay her? buy her a gift? --i felt the need to do penance. but in her face i saw forgiveness, humor even--she laughed at me, and smiled. "you've done it before mom, it's ok." 

and i've been thinking--when my children throw fits (which is what i did), when they act disgusted by me and say unkind things and make false assumptions and take their anger and frustration out on me (all that is uncomfortably personally familiar), and then when they come around (which they always do) and apologize, and reconnect....do i as the adult feel the need to administer punishment--take away a privilege, hang onto my (righteous) anger, require penance? ...or do i smile, maybe even laugh, and forgive, no holds barred, no penance required? 

--do i extend to my children the same grace they give to me?

that is the "footage" i will hold in my mind and heart--the image of my daughter's sweet smile, the sound of her gentle laugh, the feel of her forgiveness and absence of punishing anger, the lack of expectations for penance. and that is the grace i will extend to my children.


by Heather Schopp


Friday, June 13, 2014

Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old he will not depart from it."

Sometimes people write things that deserve to be repeated...

This is something a friend of mine posted in a group on Facebook on July 5, 2013...and the copied text has been sitting in a document on my desktop since then. This is how I roll :)

- - -

SHEILA STUBBS WROTE:
Yesterday I did a bit of study on Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old he will not depart from it." The verse contains only 6 words, which takes 21 English words to describe.

TRAIN UP = dedicate, initiate, commence using, instruct, train up imbue [imbue means to inspire or influence thoroughly]. The root pictures a narrowing/neck, or the jaw, also to put something in the mouth, metaphorically: tasting.

KJV translates it elsewhere 4 X as "dedicate" and only this one time as "train up".

A CHILD = boy, lad, servant, youth. Usually used to refer to a child, though used in this verse about baby Moses: "And when she had opened [it], she saw the child [child/son/boy/offspring/youth] and, behold, the babe [boy/lad/servant/youth] wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This [is one] of the Hebrew children. [child/son/boy/offspring/youth]

IN THE WAY = way, road, distance, journey, manner.

HE SHOULD GO = mouth. The word portrays a sense of blowing, breathing, an opening. Translated elsewhere as commandment, edge, according.

AND WHEN HE IS OLD = to be old, to become old – "like an old man with his chin hanging down"

HE WILL NOT DEPART FROM IT = turn aside, depart, cause to depart, withdraw


COMMENTS:

Sheila Stubbs
I was fascinated by the translation of the word "mouth" to "he should go". To me it's saying "Influence a boy’s journey from his first breath and in old age he won’t withdraw." Which is quite the complete opposite of the Pearl's message.

Sheila Stubbs
Point your kids in the right direction—
when they’re old they won’t be lost. ~ The Message bible

Dara Stoltzfus
This is so typical of problems with English Bibles translated by Westerners who ALREADY believe certain things about the Bible. Like, the translating committees already believe certain things about God and the Bible so when they get to these parts to translate their minds are already clouded and instead of translating the actual words they just put what they already think it says...

Just a few of the things you point out here like what if all Christians instead of approaching their kids with this attitude of "training" them...lived with the mindset of the word INSPIRE. What if parents believed they were to INSPIRE their children? And, then the word "mouth" for "he should go" There's just so much there that changes the way that verse has always been looked at and makes it so much deeper and beautiful.

And, what a world? What if all Christian parents raised their sons from their first breath in such a way as to INSPIRE them to not want to deviate from God? What if all the husbands there...all the fathers...had been INSPIRED to follow God/LOVE from their 1st breaths?"







Tuesday, May 20, 2014

Guest Post: Belts and Paddles: An Easy Justification for Atheism

“[P]ain is a marvelous purifier. . . It is not necessary to beat the child into submission; a little bit of pain goes a long way for a young child. However, the spanking should be of sufficient magnitude to cause the child to cry genuinely.” – James Dobson

The persistent dogmatism of conservative Christianity was going to lead me in one of two directions, either progressive Christianity or Atheism. It did not have to be this way and maybe today things could be different; but this is the one area that things do get quite serious.

It is the one areas that even as an Atheist I will side with those Christian anti-spankers in their crusade. I do not believe the Bible is really telling parents in the 2014 to spank their kids. I am not going to get into the nitty gritty of it on this blog. Check out my spanking myth blog for more details. Suffice it to say their are some really persuasive arguments that can keep hitting and abusing children out of religion. Granted, I do think god could have been more clear!

The problem here lies in the fact that so many Christians dogmatically assert that you must hit your kid or you are not a good Christian or Parent. This is one of the key elements of why I am now an atheist. Sure there are many other reasons, but this is one that could have been avoided quite easily. I will make the case here that those Christians who strongly advocate spanking are actually pushing non-believers away and estranging believers who are against spanking.

This is done in three primary ways. The first is too make this an issue one that concerns the eternal destination of your soul. Of course I reject all notions of heaven and hell, but I will concede here to make my point. It may not be stated so bluntly but to many Christians the refusal to spank your child is chalked up as direct disobedience to god. To do this means you are not concerned with the souls of your children and in fact may not be concerned with your own soul.

I remember talking to my pastor about this and the impression was very clear. To not spank is a declaration of my living in sin and according to the doctrines of this Calvinist church to live in sin without repentance is to endanger your soul with hell fire. Others on Facebook would say I was liberal and imply that I did not hold the Bible in high esteem even after doing more bible study on the issue than they ever did.

To take something so personal and to make it a test of faith or at best a test of good Christianity left a mark on me that never went away. It ultimately led me to questioning the Bible as a whole and wondering why I could feel such a moral outrage on something they considered moral. I started asking the question would I disobey a command of god even if I felt it was wrong? The answer was an emphatic yes! The next question was, why would god command me to do something that I felt was wrong? So dear Christian if you do not want your fellow believers asking these questions than do not back your fellow believers into a corner where they have too. Also, stop with the whole nonsense that Atheists do not have morals. It was morality that led me out of my faith.

The second thing that Christians often take that turn off believers and non believers alike is that they argue from ignorance by quote mining. They quote scripture or some random guy to prove their point, instead of actually dealing with the context. This aspect really amazed me, because even pastors who were big on reading stuff in their context were horrible about doing this when it came to corporal punishment. To be honest I think many pastors do not want to upset the congregation for fear of losing their lively hood.

I remember countless discussions on Facebook and in Email where the premise was based on biblical fiat and where my explanation of the Bible was completely rejected. In a conversation with my old roomate back in my seminary days, I remember giving careful diligence to explain the origin of the word “rod” and how it was meant to be take poetically. The fact that the phrase “spare the rod, spoil the child” was not even in the Bible, but from a poem called Hudibras. The fact most proponents of spanking did not even know this betrayed their ignorance and sheepishness. In fact, that is why they hide behind mere quotes and instead of using reason and logic they just listen to preachers. Instead of doing actually research they just parrot back something James Dobson said.

Lastly, I guess what really pushed me away was how close minded these people were to science. One of the best kept secrets in child psychology is that kids who are not spanked actually do better than kids who were spanked. It is no surprise that other studies that reveal that spanking damages the developing brain, that spanking causes sexual confusion, and that children who are spanked are more likely to be violent to others and to continue this vile practice. The evidence is overwhelming the corporal punishment is detrimental to society and can cause real harm. Many today testify to that fact and many adults suffer resentment and pain from their childhood experiences. This is in fact one of the main reason many children of believers become leave the faith when they are older. Now just think about that for a minute. Was not the primary reason you are told to spank and hit your child was to save their souls from hell, but now look at them! According to your very own theology if they as atheists or agnostics they are headed for hell! Do you smell a rat now. Maybe we can finally stop this cycle. After all hitting kids is not the best way to demonstrate the validity of your faith and leads many to an easy justification to reject it including your very own children.

So, Christian or non Christian anti-spankers remember these things and when confronted by someone who wants to force their view of corporal punishment on you then tell them these things. Tell them that this is a private family matter, tell them that simply quoting scripture does not remove ignorance, and tell them that science in fact does matter, and tell them that these type of behaviors are bad for religion and bad for the world.

As an atheist, I will tell all those people who tried to force this dogma onto me and belittle me for standing up for what was right that I use them as an easy excuse for my atheism. After all, how could a loving and holy God command immorality? Also how could a Holy Spirit really be guiding them? I think it is clear that he or she is not, but maybe just maybe I would think differently if Christians were more consistent. Maybe, It would not be so easy to be an atheist if it was not made so evident that these dear people are not following god, but their own delusions. So my challenge is do your research, do not rely on tired arguments, and please do not reject science.
Mark Sebert

Saturday, October 5, 2013

Guest post by Samuel Martin: Gender Space in Biblical Times

Guest Post by Samuel Martin



Gender Space in Biblical times: 
Considering the whole counsel of God 
in understanding the
Biblical texts concerning Corporal Punishment/Spanking

When I was a small boy growing up in Israel, the house that I stayed in in northern Jerusalem was located just off the main road that headed north out of the city. In the early 1970's, there were very few houses located in the area where I lived. 

You could walk in any direction and in the non-built up areas near our house, we had semi-nomadic peoples living as our neighbors. These semi-nomads are still living here today and they are known as Bedouins. 

These people pursue an age old lifestyle that goes back to the time of Abraham and his custom of living in tents and raising sheep, goats and camels. (Genesis 24:35) The make their living practicing animal husbandry and live by selling their animals and the products that come from them.

Now, over the last few years, I've had the good fortune to visit some of these Bedouins and been in their tents. I've even come to understand their culture and customs a little bit. I also understand their language so when I visit them, I can speak with them and better understand their life contexts as an active observer.

Be careful in making comparisons about modern semi-nomads and people who lived in Bible times

Now, when it comes to comparing the lifestyles of these people and those semi-nomads who we read about in the Bible, one must be cautious. There are some differences, but can we still learn things about the customs of people in ancient times by looking at modern people who are living in similar ways? Without question we can!

What I think helps me in observing the customs and lifestyles of these peoples is that it helps us to see that we need to put flesh on the skeletons that we have in Scripture. Don't get me wrong. You all know that I believe in the Scriptures, but we all have a tendency to read the Bible through the lenses of our own experiences and those lenses may not always be viewing Biblical history in 20/20 vision.

This is what I have tried to show in a post I did about the issue of how many Israelites left Egypt during the Exodus period. I refer to this subject in the following post:


In that post, I have referred to the following three texts, which if taken alone, seem to clearly indicate that there were more than 2.5 million Israelites who left Egypt under the leadership of Moses. Note these texts.

“And the people of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, and very much livestock, both flocks and herds.” (Exodus 12:37-38 ESV)

“So all those listed of the people of Israel, by their fathers' houses, from twenty years old and upward, every man able to go to war in Israel—all those listed were 603,550.” (Numbers 1:45-46 ESV)

“This was the list of the people of Israel, 601,730.” (Numbers 26:51 ESV)

It seems so clear and so plain that this information seems to trump anything else. We seem trapped when we read this and are forced to conclude that there can be no other possible answer to this question. The case is closed. 

But here is where the whole counsel of God comes in.

You get a whole different perspective when you, in person, go down and view the city of Jericho. You get a whole different perspective when you go and view the King's Highway going from Egypt in the south up through Jordan to Damascus. You get a whole different view when you see actual semi-nomadic encampments yourself and compare the same to the information we have in the Bible. These issues are in my view just as important as those three texts mentioned before and deserve to be considered with equal weight to what we have in the Bible.

When you see things on the ground and know that you have to deal with the facts of geography, physical laws, physical space and time, you realize that while God is a miracle worker, unless you are able to simply ignore the whole counsel of God and refuse to listen to what the LORD is saying throughout His Scripture (knowing that it is all connected and linked together), you are in a serious state of deficiency and you may become like a horse who has blinders on his eyes and can only see one view point.

It is no different when we look at the material found in the book of Proverbs concerning spanking

This is exactly what I have discovered since I started to study this subject in great detail. If you think that you are going to be guided by a few texts in the book of Proverbs and not going to let the rest of the Scripture speak on the issue of corporal punishment/spanking/smacking, you may only be seeing things in one direction and you may be missing God's whole counsel.

I think that it is really incumbent upon all of us to really study these matters carefully following the Biblical admonition which says:

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15 ESV)

I think we would all agree that if one does not consider the text in its original context and how we in a modern world disconnected from that context by our own cultural biases and the cultural layers that are spread on our own world views, one may come to an understanding which is deficient.

In this regard, there is no more important issue to consider than what I call "gender space."

Gender Space: What is it and why should you as a Bible student care about it?

Gender Space may sound like a foreign concept which is found in sociological textbooks and to be discussed only in a university environment, but in fact this is not the case. Gender space is all around us and affects our behavior and our interaction with the world around us.

It is the recognition that there are roles and physical spaces where the gender differences are expressed and defined in clear and concrete ways.

Let me give you a simple example. Public restrooms. When one sees a sign indicating a public restroom, it is pretty easy to tell who is directed to go into which space. For either gender to enter the physical space of the other is in most cultures culturally out of bounds and not acceptable. 

Gender space exists also in the Bible. A good example of this is found in Genesis 31:

 "So Laban went into Jacob’s tent and into Leah’s tent and into the tent of the two female servants, but he did not find them. And he went out of Leah’s tent and entered Rachel’s. Now Rachel had taken the household gods and put them in the camel’s saddle and sat on them. Laban felt all about the tent, but did not find them. And she said to her father, “Let not my lord be angry that I cannot rise before you, for the way of women is upon me.” So he searched but did not find the household gods." (Genesis 31:33-35 ESV)

Here isn't it interesting that you have gender space clearly indicated, but you also have gender boundaries. Laban was the father of Rachel, but he would not touch her personally due to her going through her monthly cycle. There existed a physical boundary between them due to this issue even though they were father and daughter!

We can also note that the women had their respective tents.

I have seen this in person. I have noted in my visits to semi-nomadic communities that the physical spaces where men and women meet and where brothers and sisters meet or where fathers and daughters meet or interact is bound by rules. This is especially the case when children grow up and start to mature. These rules are very different and put into operation very differently in semi-nomadic cultures like those of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (and even to a certain extent in his early life David - who practiced animal husbandry) compared to what one might experience in the Rocky Mountain states of the USA in 2013!

Today, in America, a Christian father would not be restricted from touching his teen age daughter during her monthly cycle, but in Biblical times, we have specific examples showing that they related differently one to another and we have evidence that they would not even touch each other! This is because there were laws which dictated physical cleanliness and demanded a respect of boundaries and physical space which in modern gentile culture today are just not in evidence.

As boys and girls mature, these rules become more pronounced and the taboos associated with them become stronger. 

The places where men operate in the public sphere are very different where girls or women operate in some cultures. I think we have to really think this through when we are looking at the Bible because it is a layer that is on top of the texts. Those who ignore these issues risk potentially misunderstanding issues which on the issue just seem so plain and clear, but when you dig down to the sub-texts and the cultural environment or rhythm underneath, there are whole other forces at work or in operation. 

It is difficult to draw precise conclusions from these texts, but they can help us to contextualize and point to general ideas that have to be considered when we are relating to the Biblical text. In every case, we need to take care.

Having a good translation of the Bible is so important here and here is why

The nuances of Scripture are often quite important. Here we need accurate translations of the original to help us to know what the original language indicates. Often though, questions about gender are blurred or adjusted for a variety of different reasons. A good example of this is found in the New Living Translation (NLT) in the book of Proverbs. Note it below:

"Don’t fail to discipline your children. They won’t die if you spank them." (Proverbs 23:13 NLT)

Now in this text, we can see no gender differences apparent, because of the phrase "your children." However, if you will check the following link, you will find several dozen other versions which have the text correct. This is not a second person plural construction, but a singular masculine noun.


Unfortunately, we see in this version no relevance to any gender differences. This is a problem.

It is particularly troubling in this particular version (the New Living Translation [NLT]) that we find major inconsistencies in translating the same terms in Hebrew, but the translators seem to want to blur the gender lines. Note the following:

http://biblehub.com/nlt/proverbs/4.htm - Note verses 1, 10 and 20


http://biblehub.com/nlt/proverbs/6.htm - Note verses 1 and 20 and note especially the use of 'my child."

http://biblehub.com/nlt/proverbs/7.htm - Note 1 and 24 where the text is obviously directed at a male

When you study these pages, you will see the translations moves back and forth between "son/sons" and "child" not really giving a reason why. This is unnecessary and blurs the gender differences and in some cases helps to create a misunderstanding. 

Let me be clear. All of these texts are oriented to the male gender. For more information, see my free ebook where I have a whole chapter on this issue.

Write info@biblechild.com to get yours or visit the following link - http://whynottrainachild.com/2013/06/22/download-martins-book


How does this relate to interpreting the book of Proverbs on discipline?

The question we here have to ask ourselves is this: Would David or Solomon have looked at the issue of corporal punishment and their supposed advocacy for it in the same way that a modern minister (who is following their supposed advice) would?

David and Solomon had very different orientations and had a three dimensional life which is very different than you or I do today. I think we have to consider these differences and ask ourselves: Do the same parameters apply today?

A good example is pointed out in Prof. William Webb's excellent book "Corporal Punishment in the Bible." 


Prof. Webb points to the following text showing that today, due to advances in medicine, we are not limited to give suffering patients only wine or strong drink to alleviate medically induced pain. We have today stronger drugs to do this job more effectively. Note this text.

"Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress:" (Proverbs 31:6 ESV)

No one in their right mind would suggest that on the basis of this text that we abandon modern medicine or modern pain killing drugs. Yet, when it comes to the issue of corporal punishment, all of a sudden, people start focusing on physical "rods" and how we need to follow the timeless Biblical directive.

Here are some points that we all need to think about in relating to Proverbs and some of these include gender aspects?

1. When you consider the gender spaces we've touched on here in Scripture, think about how this might impact father/child and especially father/daughter interactions.

2. The Hebrew culture of the Bible included a day of rest known as the Sabbath. One must consider the implications of the Sabbath and how the orientation of people on this day affected how families interacted. It was designed to be a day of joy and one where the spirit of peace and happiness (very much mirroring our future life in heaven) was to be in evidence. (Isaiah 58:13)

3. David, prior to his becoming king, lived in a rural environment and practiced animal husbandry. How was his physical space and orientation different when he lived with his family in Bethlehem compared to his life as a king? How might this impact his life?

4. David had six wives and many children. How does this issue impact his role as a father in the daily life of all of his children? Was he able to be a father in the same way as Christian men living in the USA or Europe today are to be fathers?

5. Many fathers in ancient times in rural farming areas worked six days per week and worked long hours outside of the home only to come home in the evening to be physically very tired. One can imagine that the actual physical time that children had with their fathers could have been very limited due to the weather, the lack of presence of light in homes, the customs of early sleeping and early rising, etc. We have to understand that the life of farmers in ancient times may have been very different and allowed much less actual interaction than we have today between fathers and their children.

These are just a few of the issues we need to keep in mind when interpreting Proverbs in particular. There are, of course, many more which could be introduced which we also need to pay attention to. 



Free ebook by Samuel Martin:

Write info@biblechild.com to get yours or visit the following link - http://whynottrainachild.com/2013/06/22/download-martins-book


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