Giving what you value - what does spanking teach?

Think of how you handle things of value. 

Imagine yourself...

...holding a $10,000 diamond necklace in your hand. 

...sitting in the driver's seat of a brand new Corvette.

...holding a newborn baby.

...walking across a room with a crystal vase full of roses.

When we handle things "of value" - we handle them carefully. Tenderly. With reverence.

A child seeing a parent handling a valuable item would see through the parent's body language that the thing they were holding...was valuable.

So...what does spanking demonstrate to the child about their value? 

When the child sees the parent scowling, raising an arm in order to inflict pain upon them - what does that parental body language tell the child about their value?

In the Bible we read about a widow who put 2 copper coins into the temple treasury. Jesus said she had put in more than the rich had. We know literally she hadn't put in coins of more value than the rich...so what does Jesus mean?

"He said, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all of them; for they all out of their surplus put into the offering; but she out of her poverty put in all that she had to live on.”"

Those two copper coins were of extreme value to the woman and yet she gave them to God. The rich placed little value on the coins they put in because they had so much, so to God...their donation wasn't worth what hers was.

Someday your hope is that your child will serve God, yes?

In which way will they offer service to God? Like the widow or like the rich? 

Will your child see themselves with the value that the widow did the coins, and yet give anyway? Or will your child see themselves with the value the rich did...as essentially worthless...and give of themselves believing they really aren't worth anything anyway, so why not?

The way you treat your child...will determine how much they value themselves. And out of that valuation, they will either please, or not please God with their service.

For their service to God to be of value to God someday they must first identify themselves as having a high value...and choose to give of themselves anyway.

Picture your body language during a spanking. Picture the way you handle their body when you are spanking them. Picture the whole scene from the child's perspective. Does that picture teach them they are of the utmost value? 

For that matter imagine the impact on your child when you do so many of the prescribed things in books by men like Ezzo, Tripp, and Dobson. Does ignoring a crying child teach them they are of high value or little? Does separating yourself from them regularly to have "time away from them" teach them they have high value or little? Does threatening them with a whipping if they are disturbing your peace teach them they have high value or little?

Remember that Jesus told us we are to always "consider others (and that includes your children) as more important than yourselves," and realize that had your child been the only human on earth - Jesus still would have died for them. That's how much your child matters. 

Spend some time and try to imagine how you could live with your children in such a way as to demonstrate to them their immense infinite (blood of Jesus) value and inspire them...to want to choose...to live a life committed to God?

  

 

How to teach forgiveness...

I had an experience the other night that has left me troubled and unsettled. I have that feeling one might have if you walked out of a store (by accident) and had an item in your cart that you didn't actually pay for. (Now, some might feel triumphant having accidentally stolen something and in that case…I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to Christians right now.) What I am talking about is that troubling feeling that something is owed. I have that feeling. Only, the thing I owe isn't an item I accidentally took, it is an offense I caused against another person.

I dropped my 17 year old off at soccer practice and explained to him that I'd be a few minutes late getting him and not to worry. The reason I'd be late is because at the time he was to be picked up I'd be just exiting gymnastics with 2 of his little sisters. 

That time came (which was 7:30), and we exited gymnastics. And, rather than driving the 1/4 mile over to the soccer field, I totally spaced it out. Yep. I drove to Lowe's and casually looked at some plants. I drove home and casually ate some food and started cleaning out one of the fish tanks. La la la. 

Around 8:30 my older son walks into the room and asks where his brother is?

Adrenaline shot through me and my eyes nearly popped out of my head. Panic! Horror! It was an hour ago that he was to be picked up! It was already dark! And, I had noticed when he got out of the van when I let him out that he'd forgotten his cell phone! 

I ran to my van and did my best to not speed while I pushed every limit to get there as fast as I could.

When I found him he was about 1/2 mile into his walk. I could see him there walking and all types of thoughts were battering me as I imagined how it felt to be forgotten? To give up and start walking home because your mother was too busy with your siblings to remember you? I don't know if I could have felt more awful! The guilt was terrible! 

I pulled over, heart racing, feeling sick in my stomach, feeling ashamed...expecting and almost wishing for an angry face and some yelling or some scolding, but, he smiled and laughed that I'd forgotten. He didn't seem to feel any need to "punish" me at all for this. 

He forgave me for forgetting.

This is supposed to be awesome, isn't it? Forgiveness? It's what Jesus did for us on the cross, right? But, I didn't feel "free" to BE forgiven for it. Something inside me felt the need to suffer before I could feel OK about what I did.

For the Christian this is probably one of the most important things to comprehend. Yet, do we? We evangelize and try to get people to recite that sinner's prayer all the time to be forgiven, but, yet do we actually comprehend "forgiveness" at all in the church?

Let's look at verses about "forgiveness" and see… 

- - -

Psalm 130:4
But there are punishment with You, that You may be feared.

Psalm 130:7 
O Israel, put your hope in the Lord, because with the Lord there are consequences and with him there is unlimited punishment

Psalm 14:9 
The wise make fun of guilt, but there is forgiveness among permissive people.

Matthew 18:21
Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you to forgive him because he should experience punishments, I do not say to to repay him up to seven times, but to repay him up to seventy times seven."

Matthew 26:28 
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the beginning of the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 1:4 
John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of experiencing punishments for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 1:76-78 
"And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High; for you will go on before the Lord to prepare His ways; to give His people the knowledge of salvation by the experiencing of punishments because of their sins,"

Acts 26:18
[I am sending you] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive punishment for their sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.

Hebrews 10:18 
This is the covenant that I will make with them. After those days, says the Lord; I will put My laws upon their heart, and on their mind I will write them. And, their sins and their lawless deeds I will punish them for." Now where there is punishment for these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. 
- - -

Oh wait! 

That's not what the Bible says, is it? I altered those verses…didn't I?! 

We all know that "it's by grace we've been saved thru faith and that's nothing we did it is the gift of God…" Right? We all know that, don't we?

I think we all know that like a skinny lady "knows" she's not fat. Our minds tell us one thing but our hearts are convinced of another... 

God wrote the Bible. Therefore it was His idea to refer to Himself as our "Father" and we His "children". 

He chose this purposely, wouldn't you imagine? 

Romans 1 says so. And, Romans 1 says that we're supposed to learn lessons from everything He's made and to not learn makes Him mad! So, a few lessons this analogy could teach us are for one...we are supposed to be able to look at our own interactions with our own children and learn about God. And, we are supposed to be able to look at our own interactions with God and learn how to be a parent.

When we look at those verses without me messing them up...we see how God parents His children when they're naughty… 

- - - 

Psalm 130:4 
But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared.

Psalm 130:7 
O Israel, put your hope in the Lord, because with the Lord there is mercy and with him there is unlimited forgiveness

Psalm 14:9 
Stubborn fools make fun of guilt, but there is forgiveness among decent people.

Matthew 18:21
Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, " I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven."

Matthew 26:28 
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Mark 1:4 
John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 1:76-78 
"And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High; for you will go on before the Lord to prepare His ways; to give His people the knowledge of salvation by the forgiveness of their sins, because of the tender mercy of our God." 
- - -

Which way do you parent? Are you more like those first verses that I altered or like the ones you just read?

When your kids are naughty...
Do you forgive them or do you...take their cell phones? 
Do you forgive them or do you...take their favorite toys? 
Do you forgive them or do you...make them go to bed without supper? 
Do you forgive them or do you...ground them? 
Do you forgive them or do you...take their car keys?
Do you forgive them or do you...hit/spank them? 

I'm almost positive that if you're like me...your mind says, "Yeah! But, kids NEED to have consequences!"

Uh huh. Yep. 

All "bad" choices have a natural negative consequences. It's why those choices are labeled "bad" to begin with.

Being punished isn't a consequence...it's being not forgiven.
THINK about this!  

Our minds have been totally warped by the world and how we were raised.

God is the one who told us that the way we raise kids up…when they're old they won't depart from it.

Check this verse out...

- - -

Acts 26:18 

[I am sending you] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me. 

- - -

Until we're able to receive forgiveness…we're in darkness and in the dominion of Satan. Until we're able to RECEIVE forgiveness we're still in darkness and in the dominion of Satan.

Do you realize what that means, really? 

My son forgave me for forgetting to pick him up, but, I can't RECEIVE that. I can't accept that. Something in me…that was trained as a child that when I messed up I got hurt…I got a butt whacking or something taken from me…SOMEHOW I PAID for what I'd done…and now that I'm grown I can't depart from it! That's still in me. That training that I'm obligated to PAY for what I've done prevents me from RECEIVING forgiveness for even small things like being late to pick up my son from soccer…when he's not even mad!

Is this in my head? No. I believe him that he's not mad. But, in every other cell of my body I feel like I need to "pay" for this somehow. 

The reason for this is simple: this was how my parents trained me by giving me their idea of "consequences" which were swift and consistent punishments. I am old now but I have not gone far from that.

Parents who are striving to not use punishment are usually accused by punishers of being, "permissive" and that those kids will run wild…but…re-read the verses about forgiveness. 

What kind of parent is God? 

Clearly, He forgives. Clearly, He knows best how to raise kids. And, clearly, He does not "spank" us. He forgives us. And, this forgiveness for "sins" is supposed to set us free, release us from darkness, and release us from satan's power…

And, He is our example how to live.

He is our example how to parent.

And, when we fail to follow His example, our children end up unable to receive forgiveness. We end up raising kids who overwork themselves to earn our love...to earn God's love. Kids who feel they have to work work work once they're part of a church, saying "yes" to everything. We raise kids who are too hard on themselves. And, we raise kids who live in constant "stress" which ultimately makes their bodies sick...

So many parents…and people who follow the teachings of people like the Pearl's in, "To Train up a Child", think that they're helping to ensure the salvation of their children. They think that they're parenting like God. They think that they're doing right. But, when they train up their child to expect punishment for wrongdoing, they are ensuring that their children remain in darkness and in the dominion of satan because of their inability to receive forgiveness.

The only way to raise up children who can receive forgiveness is to raise them in such a way that they do not expect to be punished for doing wrong. 

Sadly, I was not at peace until I found a way to "punish" myself for having forgotten to pick up my son. It wasn't necessarily conscious but it was persistent. Some form of penance had to occur before I could be released. Making his favorite meals? Buying him something? Maybe once something "bad" finally happened to me I'd feel relieved. 

Basically, when I mess up...darkness and satan have a power over me that Jesus died to release me from...until I feel I've suffered "enough." 

AND...the other way that darkness "has me" is that not only do I expect payment for sin from myself...but I'm not at peace with others when they sin against me unless they suffer. Being raised in a punitive environment makes it so that when people "sin" against you...you need to see them suffer before you can forgive them...That isn't God's way, either... :(

The "rod" of Bible times was a weapon that the shepherds carried and used on predators. If a shepherd were to have struck his fragile sheep with that weapon it would have only hurt and weakened the sheep and therefore made it easier for a predator to get that sheep. 

Turning on your children and using the rod on the…spiritually…insures the same thing. 

Hebrews 10:18 

This is the covenant that I will make with them. After those days, says the Lord; I will put My laws upon their heart, and on their mind I will write them. And, their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

The Biblical Rod:

Punishment is not a true consequence...

Once-Upon-a-Time...or...Monday...Either one suits. I was out at a public play area with my 4 youngest children ages 12, 10, 8 and 6...and my husband. 

The three younger are girls and found some playmates. The oldest is a little too old for playing on public pirate ships with little kids and so he n' his dad walked over to the craft store to grab something.

Meanwhile I was sitting alone and had noticed a lady near me speaking in Spanish on her cell phone. I also noticed that she looked friendly, so, I walked over to her and said, "De dónde eres?" or, "Where are you from?"

She looked up at me and her eyes brightened and smiling broadly she said, "Ai! Que linda!" Basically, "How cool!" She was delighted that I was speaking to her in Spanish and the smile never left her face for the rest of the conversation.

As we sat then (for 2 hours!) and spoke in Spanish she wanted to know all about how I'd learned Spanish and she told me all about her life from the Dominican Republic, to NYC, to here in Florida. And, many many times she told me, smiling ear-to-ear, how amazingly I spoke her language. 

And, as I talked to her, I felt like I was speaking her language perfectly like I'd never spoken it before. It was crazy. 

In Spanish, I have always struggled to conjugate verbs more complex than the simple, "I am, I was, I will be" tenses. In Spanish, to say "I would have been" is another way of saying the verb "to be" rather than adding the words "would have" and I've never felt I've mastered those...till I was sitting there talking to her.

I'd start to say something and the words fell out of my mouth and her eyes were so...pleased with everything I said. And, I was excited that I was having such a great learning opportunity to be able to sit there and talk to her. I was excited that I was able to understand everything she said and respond! It's times like this that make language learning happen!

Then...my husband returned from the craft store and sat with us. And, it happened...as it always does. Suddenly, my Spanish went back in time about a year and I found myself struggling with sentence formations and my pronunciation got a thicker American accent to it. And, I started missing half of what she was saying.

My husband was the son of missionaries from Pennsylvania and spent age 4 to 40 living in a Spanish country. He speaks Spanish like a native. He joined the conversation for a while and she was then doubly delighted to have now two people to chat with.

So, why did my Spanish begin to fail me when he showed up? 

I thought about this afterwards because this is what always happens to me always in the presence of an English speaking person who also speaks Spanish. Why?

Finally, after ten years of wondering why...it hit me.

Fear and shame.

The Spanish people all have the same sort of attitude towards non-Spanish people speaking their language as this lady. Unlike Americans they almost see it as an honor and are much like this lady in their reactions: thrilled by every word you say. And, so to speak to a Spanish person is completely freeing. There is no fear or shame in making any mistakes.

Americans, on the other hand, will criticize your pronunciation, grammar, and notice every mistake you make. 

I was in a church service one time and an American was at the podium speaking in Spanish. A lady behind me who spoke Spanish and English was critiquing everything she said...pointing out her errors in pronunciation and so forth but then tacked on, "She's doing really well..." at the end of the long list of, "oh she screwed up theres."

Over the years, I'd heard many such critiques of Americans speaking Spanish by people like that. There are certain "common mistakes" that Americans make when attempting to speak Spanish and people who are truly bilingual seem to love to make fun of those things...and I am not immune from making those mistakes and I know it. So, I know what those bilingual Americans are thinking about what I'm trying to say, "Ha! Listen to that pronunciation!"

What is it about Americans that we feel the need to judge, critique, and "grade" everything? Is it school? Is it being raised in a world where from age 5 (or younger) -18 everything we do is "graded" and compared to everyone else? Is it because we spend our whole lives under the threat of failure or punishment?

Is it that 80+% of us were raised in homes where if we messed up we got punished (usually with a spanking) and so now after years of that being literally pounded into us, "mess up = spanking" that it's just "part of us" to feel the need to punish people for their mistakes? And, when it is a person we can't "actually" punish we do it by talking badly about them? 

There is all this debate about "giving children consequences" and when a parent stands up against "punishment" the masses all frown and declare doom and gloom ahead for that child who will not learn anything that way!

But, what happens to me when I fear being critiqued and "punished" by my errors all being pointed out? I shut down. I fail to perform. I, as an adult, close the door to learning.

If no one is there to point out my errors to me when I'm attempting to speak Spanish, will I have no consequences for my mistakes? The true mistake is believing that pointing out and punishing mistakes is a "consequence."

The true consequence of me making mistakes in Spanish are...that the person will get "that look" that means, "Huh?" Maybe they'll look at me funny for a sec and ask me to try again. Sometimes, the person might giggle at me for saying, "I laid an egg" instead of saying, "I put the egg in a pan." The true consequences of mistakes in Spanish aren't the pointing out of those mistakes, but, in the experiencing the reactions of the miscommunications which...aren't painful. The true consequences are just bumps in the road of communication that can sometimes stall a conversation or cause laughter.

When someone is present who basically "takes on the role" of "disciplinarian" doling out the "punishments" for my errors (as in pointing out all my mistakes) that inhibits me from learning because it prevents me from truly experiencing the true consequences of my mistakes and puts my focus on the person pointing them out. 

Kids are just people learning to "speak a the language" of being human. They're learning to interact with others and how to just "be" who they are. 

If your focus with your child is on pointing out and punishing them for their mistakes...if you believe children "need consequences" you need to realize that you...need to get out of the way so they can finally have them. Your punishments are getting in the way of them truly experiencing the cause and effect relationship they have with the world they're attempting to interact with...which is what "consequences" are.

Lead. Guide. Set the example. That's what the Biblical rod was for. Not hitting. Not punishing. And, this...is why. Because the Lord desires all to come to Him and fear of punishment does not have that result...

And, help your children keep moving forward by allowing them to experience and understand the true consequences of their choices, and, when necessary, help them repair things they've done really wrong...

Is spanking a "salvation issue"?

(This post is having major formatting problems. No idea why!)

Is spanking right or wrong? Some Christians dismiss themselves from spanking discussions by saying, "well, it's not a salvation issue, so it doesn't matter to me." But, is it a salvation issue? 

What do we get saved from? Hell?

Matthew 1:21
She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Galatians 1:3-5
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.

Jesus came to save us from sin here and now, not future hell. 

How did He do that?

Ephesians 2: 8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

What has "saved" us is God's forgiveness, isn't it? And, it's given to people who do not deserve it. That...is the tricky part of grasping the concept of forgiveness. 

Mostly, people, even Christians, will not forgive unless they believe the person deserves to be forgiven...and in instances that people do not deserve it they hold fast self-righteously to their unforgiveness.

For example...

Your small child is run over in the driveway...by a little old lady who has just had a heart attack while she was driving to the church to do volunteer work. Can you forgive her?

Your child is run over in the driveway...by a drunk teenage boy who was out partying and illegally driving his father's pick-up 30 mph over the speed limit. Can you forgive him?

God doesn't see as we see and doesn't forgive as we do...and yet He expects us to try to see how He does. We're to be imitators of Him. He doesn't judge sin on a scale...He forgives and expects us to do likewise...

Mark 11:25
Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions. [But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions.”]

Matthew 6:12

And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Matthew 6:14

For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Jesus came to save us from sin...

We are saved from our sins thru forgiveness...
Forgiveness is given to those who do not deserve it...
If we don't forgive...we can't receive forgiveness...

So, God says, "when they're old they won't depart" from how we're raised, right? So, when we start off each person's life when their brain is laying all of its foundational pathways of dealing with life by punishing them each time they do wrong...what if they do not depart from that? 

What does punishing and spanking teach us about our salvation as we are growing up?

Think about that. Every day that passes...the future adult Christian spends their formative years being taught every time they do wrong that they must be punished in order for peace to once again reign in their world. In other words...in order to be "saved" from their sins...they must be punished. 

And, God says they won't depart from this...HOW will they receive and give forgiveness if this is what is instilled in them from their very beginning?

Are they going to magically reach age 18 and suddenly feel free to BE forgiven without being punished? Will they suddenly be able to receive forgiveness from God? 

And, what about when they are wronged? Will they be able to forgive people who do not get punished for wronging them? And, if they can't forgive...how will they receive forgiveness of their own sins?

There is a tragic story in the news right now of a 16 year old boy who made an irresponsible choice and ended up killing four people. I saw on the news that the judge decided to attempt to salvage his future by giving him probation rather than tossing him into jail until he's ready for a midlife crisis. The judge saw fit to allow this young man to continue moving forward and get an education and a job and start building a life...but with supervision. Probation for 10 years.

One of the victim's family members had this to say:

""There needs to be some justice here," Eric Boyles, who lost his wife and daughter, told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" on Wednesday night. "For 25 weeks, I've been going through a healing process. And so when the verdict came out, I mean, my immediate reaction is -- I'm back to week 1. We have accomplished nothing here. My healing process is out the window," he said."

The fact that these four people were killed is a clear injustice. But, I have to wonder how punishing someone who has caused an injustice brings about justice? Does putting that young man in jail suddenly make their deaths "fair"?

What is sad is that somehow, the victims families have been raised up in a culture in such a way that the only way that husband can feel peace over the loss of his wife is to see the person who made that error punished. The only way the husband will be at peace is for the child who killed his wife to also lose his life. 

The husband says, "We have accomplished nothing here." Nothing? The judge has stepped into the young man's destroyed life and offered him "salvation" from his sins, so to speak. The judge has made a way for that young man's sins to not put him "in hell" for the rest of his life because of one (but huge) mistake he made...and nothing has been accomplished?

If one could speak with the victims...would they feel better knowing that the person who caused their deaths was in pain and also "dead" to this life...or would they feel better knowing that their deaths and the reaction of the judge have perhaps pulled that young man out of a life of futility and selfishness and sent him on a good path? Would they feel better knowing that good...or more bad...had come from their deaths? What would they feel made their deaths have meaning?

"Judge Jean Boyd told the court she would not release Couch to his parents, but would work to find the teen a long-term treatment facility.

16 year old Ethan Couch (the drunk driver that killed 4)

"There are absolutely no consequences for what occurred that day," said Boyles (husband and father of victims). 

No consequences? No consequences to what occurred that day? 

Aren't 4 people dead? 
Aren't there many people in grief? 
Aren't there babies who won't be born? 
Christmas packages that won't have anyone to open?
Friends who will never speak to their friends again? 
Hasn't Ethan's life changed forever? 
Won't Ethan forever be "the boy that killed 4 people while drunk driving?" 
Won't Ethan have to remember that he killed 4 people every day for the rest of his life? 
Hasn't Ethan's face been plastered across the internet so that his social media life will forever be plagued with haters? 
Haven't Ethan's parents lost their son? 
Haven't Ethan's parents been opened up to public shame over what their son's done especially now that the judge has declared that Ethan's killed these people because of horrible parenting and judged that taking him away from his parents is what's best for him? 
Won't Ethan's parents have to pay half a million dollars for their son to get "rehab"?
Aren't those just a few of the consequences?

The many consequences of Ethan's bad choices that day that will ripple far into eternity...

If the family members felt that the car's driver deserved forgiveness (like if the driver had been the old lady on her way to charity work having a heart attack) they would be well aware of the consequences and hoping to relieve the driver of feeling those every day. If they felt the driver deserved forgiveness they would express how badly they felt for the driver and how much they hoped the driver could move on with their life.

But, because the family members believe that Ethan doesn't deserve forgiveness they are trapped in their unforgiveness, resentment, grief, and anger. The husband's words sadly show that he has been somehow trained that punishment is the consequence for mistakes and because he can only be free from unforgiveness if the boy is punished...he is trapped. Because that boy is not being punished it is leaving some people in misery and hell...

So, is spanking a "salvation issue"? I believe it's nothing but a salvation issue.

The mother of one of the victims said menacingly to CNN reporters about the boy going to a treatment facility rather than jail, "He'll feel the hand of God..." She meant it as a "threat" but, this 16 year old boy who has hope for a future...already has...It's just too bad that in this tragedy the only person able to feel it is him...

Romans 4:7

Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, And whose sins have been covered.

The CNN Report: http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/11/us/texas-teen-dwi-wreck/

2 Corinthians 2 

But if any has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow not to me, but in some degree—in order not to say too much—to all of you. Sufficient for such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the majority, so that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him, otherwise such a one might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. Wherefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. For to this end also I wrote, so that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. But one whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ, so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes. 

Luke 11:4 

'And forgive us our sins, For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.’” 

Luke 23:34 

But Jesus was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” 

Ephesians 1:7 

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 

Ephesians 4:32 

Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you. 

1 John 1:9 

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 

Jesus...God...came to earth...as a fertilized egg...to go thru life just as we do...to give His life for us...to save us from sin and the power of the devil. Don't let the devil deny you and your children that first and truest Christmas gift...

Kids need consequences to learn right from wrong, don't they?!

You tell me which child will be learning "right" from "wrong?"

Kid 1, a grade schooler, is in a store with mom. She sees something she wants and grabs it and keeps it in her pocket. When they get out to the car mom finds the item and asks, "Did you get this inside the store?"
"Yes."
"You know that's stealing, right?"
"Yes."
"Do you know that the person who owns that store is a dad and that he has a family and kids to buy food for, just like your dad and I do?"
"No, I didn't know that..."
"And, did you know that when you take something like that that he had to pay for it? And, that means you just took money from him and his whole family?"
"Noo..."
"And, he also uses the money he makes when he sells things to pay for his employees to have jobs so they can feed their families, and if everybody stole guess what would happsn?"
"He wouldn't have any money?"
"Right! He wouldn't have any money and he wouldn't have any money to have employees and then they wouldn't have any money, either."
"Wow."
"And, guess what else would happen if everybody stole?"
"Ummm..."
"The man who owns the store would have to make all of his prices very very expensive to make up for the money he lost. And, that means that your dad would have to work extra hard to make even more money for food because food would be so much more expensive!"
"I didn't know..."
"So, what do you think we should do with that?" (pointing to the stolen item.)
"I should take it back."
Mom goes back inside with her child to put the item back. Mom finds an employee on the way in and explains what happened and that they're returning the item to its proper place. Mom says to the employee, "We're bringing this back because we know that when people steal it hurts everybody who works at the store, isn't that right?" The employee follows the mom's lead, "Yes, it does."
They exit the store with mom talking with the child about how they feel about what's just happened. They talk about different situations where people have stolen on the news and in the Bible. They talk about when there ever might be a good reason to steal and what would be the best thing to do if someone ever broke into their house to steal something? Not too far down the road in the car the subject is on something else and no "spanking" or other punishments happen at home.


Kid 2, a grade schooler, is in a store with mom. She sees something she wants and grabs it and keeps it in her pocket. When they get out to the car mom finds the item and asks, "Did you get this inside the store?"
Child looks up at mom with deer-in-headlights look on face, "Yes."
"What!? I can't believe you STOLE that! What is the matter with you! You know better than that! You know stealing is bad!"
Mom grabs the kid by the arm and heads back into the store and stands her child in front of the first employee she finds and makes him hand the person the item and say sorry. She tells the employee she's sorry, too, and how embarrassed she is and assures the employee that the child will be punished. She then heads back out to her mini-van and, thinking better of it, decides not to get the wooden spoon out of the glove box just then but opts to wait till they get home to punish her kid.
The whole ride home mom is fuming and alternately telling the child how naughty they are or being silent. Once home she gets out the paddle and gives the kid a good spanking to teach the kid a lesson about spanking. (and/or makes the child stand out by the road with a sign that says, "I STOLE!")

You hear parents often talking about the need for "discipline" and "consequences" so that children learn right from wrong.

Which kid in this example do you feel was "disciplined" in the true meaning of that word which is "to be taught?"

Which kid kid in this example do you feel understands the true "consequences" of stealing? Both kids were faced with a parent telling them that stealing is bad...but which kid learned the actual consequences brought about in the world by stealing? 

Which child do you think felt shame, humiliation and separation from the parent? Which child do you think felt fear? Do you think any of those feelings help a person understand their actions?

Which kid do you think has a better understanding after this event of what's "right" and what's "wrong?" Learning a lesson that when a child does "x" that mom and dad get super mad and spank them only teaches them that when they do "x" mom and dad get mad and spank them. 

To learn "right" from "wrong" one must care about people first of all, and caring is empathy and it is taught by example. Secondly, one must understand the full consequences of their actions to know how those actions have affected people badly and the empathy inside them will convict them that doing "x" is "wrong" and the empathy in them will make them want to never do that again. 

Example 1 is how I would handle it, actually.
How would you?